Turbos everywhere!

"Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse) 11/16/2016 at 16:48 • Filed to: Trainlopnik, Gas Turbine

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Voici le Turbotrain RTG.

Copyright as in image

We can conclude from the above that it’s (a) French (b) a train and (c) involves turbos.

And we’d be nearly right, as the RTG involved not merely turbos but turbines.

In an ideal world, this would involve a jet engine strapped on top and for added excitement a touch of afterburning so you could set off from Platform 12 with flames shooting out the back. Sadly, the train actually had Turbomeca gas turbine engines originally intended for the Super Frelon helicopter which were connected to !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , something we’ve explored before. They used a torque converter for first gear and fluid couplings for the (or each of the) higher gears.

The advantage of the gas turbine was that it produced a lot of power for not much weight and so SNCF, the French national railway operator, ordered several varieties of Turbotrain so that they could obtain high speeds on lines not deemed busy enough to be wired up.

The last and most successful turbine train was the RTG (Rame à Turbines à Gaz, or Gas Turbine Train) T2000 which entered service in France in 1973 and was retired in 2004. Each trainset had five units, two of which were powered by a turbine, and was also equipped with two smaller turbines to provide lighting and air conditioning. Unfortunately for the Turbotrain its entry into service coincided with the 1973 oil crisis and its remarkable thirst became an issue. In an attempt to reduce running costs one unit from each train was given a larger gas turbine which was capable of maintaining cruising speed on its own. The other power car kept its original engine to provide a bit of extra go when acceleration was called for.

A combination of electrification and high operating costs gradually reduced the fleet and the last runs were made in December 2004.

Want to see and hear the last run? !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Want to hear one starting and stopping with the rev counter going round the clock several times? !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

Following the retirement of the RTG the direct journey from Lyons to Bordeaux increased from seven and a half to nine hours, partially because the replacement trains were slower and partially because they were hauled by a single loco and had to be reversed four times, a job not needed on the double ended RTG.

The French call this the Pupitre de Conduire, the Pulpit of Driving.

Export models were used by Amtrak in the US and also by Egyptian and Iranian railways. Five of the last operating trainsets in France were sold to Iran in 2004, originally as a source of spares for their own fleet, and were taken there by road in 2005, an undertaking in itself. Subsequently the Iranians converted them to Volvo diesels.

The Egyptian National railway bought three trains in 1983 and continued to use them until recently.

Amtrak used their version, the Turboliner, until 2004 by which time it had gone through several renovations. The Turboliner’s retirement was forced upon Amtrak following disagreements between them and the state of New York and the trains were put up for sale in 2007. Judging by the picture not much success was had with the sale.

The RTG wasn’t by any means the only turbine train made - amongst other !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! experimented with them.

So there we have it. The gas turbine train, an answer to a question asked rarely before and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

BvdV - The Dutch Engineer > Cé hé sin 11/16/2016 at 17:00

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Interesting. So we could sort of call the later versions a multi-stage jet train?

Cé hé sin > BvdV - The Dutch Engineer 11/16/2016 at 17:05

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I suppose we could!

HammerheadFistpunch > Cé hé sin 11/16/2016 at 17:08

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Something I can’t square (probably because I haven’t bothered) is why gas turbines are so bad on fuel. I mean, they have higher thermal efficiencies than Otto cycle engines and certainly on par with older diesel. Seems like if the unit is sized properly (especially if its used in constant load electric generation) that it would be at least on par.

pip bip - choose Corrour > Cé hé sin 11/16/2016 at 17:17

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that was very interesting.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Cé hé sin 11/16/2016 at 17:22

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Canada and parts of the U.S. used a high speed tilting trainset called the UAC Turbotrain throughout the seventies. They were moved by a set of Pratt & Whitneys

Cé hé sin > HammerheadFistpunch 11/16/2016 at 17:52

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They’re hideously thirsty at low speeds because....they don’t do low speeds but instead idle at many thousands of rpm. A turbine road car will use as much fuel stationary as it would on the open road. Turbines also don’t scale down well.

That wouldn’t rule out steady speed operation of course. You’d think that they’d make sense in a large ship but unless fuel efficiency isn’t of much importance (warship) they’re not used..

facw > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 11/16/2016 at 18:10

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It’s a real shame none of the Turbotrains survived. A big complaint I have about rail museums in the US is that they often seem to have little interest in anything beyond the age of steam. The history of rail (even passenger rail) did not stop in the 1950s.

facw > Cé hé sin 11/16/2016 at 18:19

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Worth noting that the TGV prototype, TGV-001 was also turbine driven:

As with others, the oil crisis made the French reconsider the choice, and they went with an electric for the production version.

Also for some fuel diversity, have C&O’s massive coal-fired steam turbine powered M-1, essentially a coal power plant on wheels:

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > facw 11/16/2016 at 18:28

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Actually here it kinda did. Rail travel died with the advent of the jet age.

facw > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 11/16/2016 at 18:38

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Passenger rail has remained strong in the northeast corridor. And is definitely still ongoing. Additionally, commuter rail is still is still widely used, though obviously that doesn’t have the romance of a cross country journey.

Cé hé sin > facw 11/16/2016 at 18:51

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Yes., I recall seeing a picture of the steam turbine loco somewhere. Certainly an enormous contraption!

Cé hé sin > facw 11/16/2016 at 19:12

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There’s at least one steam turbine still in running condition.